4 Mar 2008

re. Turner

Post a Comment On: Reverse Metal
"monday 3rd march 2008"

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Robert said...
the whole age thing is blatantly discriminatoryim being serious hereim surprised nobody has called the fuckers on it yet
6:11 PM
murmurists said...
This Turner Prize thing seems to have developed a life of its own! I'm a bit sorry I quipped it into the Discharge realm. A brief glance into the histories of the nominees and winners will reveal the same sick and striking uniformity which infects all of British society. You'll see that most come from a handful of London/SE universities ... Goldsmiths, The Slade, Royal College, St. Martins being the main ones. The odd provincial ne-er-do-well might make it through, of course. But something complex like a blog group would, I think, be above their heads / below their radar at present. My original quip was that Serota (sp?) et al will eventually catch up to stuff like blogger and myspace long after it's peak - as usual; and will present cyber as a kind of new material which which artists are now working. We'll laugh at the time! But it'll be a hollow laugh! We'll see the establishment beard walse up to the podium to collect his or her £40,000, and tell us how cutting edge they are. The problem Tate culture has is that it can only see things as material. To cut to the chase, because the argument bores me, that's because they are stinking Capitalists - despite their attempt at being being otherwise, via art. They are just other kinds of traders. All the same bollocks holds sway behind the scenes. Knowing this can really fuck you up - if you are bothered about it. You'll feel excluded, that it's unfair, etc., if you have desires toward that mainstream. Me ... tiny me, murmurists me ... I couldn't care less about the mainstream and its rewards and appetites, as I've said before. The logic of Discharge is here, right now; and it is wonderful in being so. In that sense, I agree with comments made by Aaron recently. In the future, though, two things will happen I think: (1)Discharge will either burn-out or develop. This is the way with everything. Mankind needs a feeling of progress, of change. So, in response to that I feel fine, because that's the realist in me. I'm just enjoying it right here, right now. It's a beautiful place, full of invention, community, all without the wank of money. That's profound. (2) Some twat will win prizes with a poorer version of what we are doing now. The question to ask one's self, then, is might it be one of us? If it is, don't be that twat. Do it all honestly and properly, credit things, remember your roots, remember the things which inspired you. The Tate thing appears to off-roaded all the chat about a Chapbook or Zine, too; which is a shame.
1:04 PM
murmurists said...
In stating the above, I've no intention to sway anyone. I have my views; others have theirs. I might be a kind of nihilist when it comes to approaches to mainstream culture. I just think it's generally a waste of time and winds me up; as well confliting with my politics. I know I'm talented - as I'm sure you all feel about yourselves individually. There is that feeling that one should be rewarded for that. The logic of rewards in our society is material gain; so it's naturally we should want paying, we should want success. But I think the universe is a cold place for anyone who lives or feels themselves to live outside of the mainstream. I know I live there. I just cannot understand its motivations. They seem childish, in one sense; but moreover, they seem empty and venal. I just don't like to exploit, or to be opportunistic. I never have; and it literally gives me pain. Consequently, with my talents, I've achived little materially. But you know, I'm such a punk-hippie that I just don't care. I've kept my dignity, never danced to their tune; and I've still achived the things I've really wanted to. The best thing I've achieved is that my love, Annie, and the friends who matter to me respect what I do, and are entertained by it in some way. The blog began as that - a thing for my friends, when I moved away. CJ asked me to join the old Discharge 1, and I was happy to. I've love being here. Good luck to anyone who wants to take their art in other directions. But watch your back ... and your mental wellbeing.
1:16 PM


Robert said...

im with you in so many ways, Murmurists

the only reason that i can see for pursuing this award is to use any attention we can garner to spit in the face of the mainstream art world

but, really, it doesnt matter very much to me at all

murmurists said...

Cheers Robert. But again I'm fine with anyone doing what they want. It is possible I think to have mainstream success without being a cunt.

Anonymous said...

reasonable! NOW_
therefore i haven't responded to that prize story.

Anonymous said...

plain squirt fun to be here, OK

cocaine jesus said...


i certainly agree with your remark about the chapbook thing, far more important than the turner. i think that i, like your good self, am happy to be a part of d4 here and now. it won't last. 'nothing lasts long only the earth and the mountains'. but while it does let us all enjoy it.

now then, back to the chapbook idea...how can we re-ignite that particular flame again?

5:42 PM

Lazare said...

Lazare said...

i'm happy with D4 too. why shouldn't it last? as long as we want to keep it going... i think it deserves to survive for a year at least. so it could have a monthly chapter for every month. and that way it would gather a lot of material (if we keep the pace more or less like now) and at the same time give us time to think about the next level...

i think discharge would be terrific as a gallery exhibition - that would be expensive though; think of turning all those images into tableaux, video projections, sound pieces, on-line things, poetry performances. etc. etc. it would be great, but it's greater as it is... we have everything on the blog! my point is - the blog format is part of what makes discharge so good. it has enabled us to meet and communicate. that in itself is the best part of discharge for me. i don't give a damn about being recognized or rewarded outside the circle of people that i know and love, let alone entering the art world or getting prizes!

right now D4 is the work AND the reward.

p.s. - the turner winner gets just 25,000 quid, not 40. 40 thousand pounds is the total amount destined to all the prizes. not much, but i guess entering the fray makes the artists' works get incredibly expensive. that makes capital grow inmaterially, folks! it's just magic.

6:34 PM

Ruela said...

Cheers too Murmurists!!!

Competitions can leave the people of tracks

murmurists said...

Lazare ...

Yes, is it £25,000? I take little interest these days. Think I was thinking of the KLF stunt. Two artists I like have won the prize in the last, what?, 15 years ... Keith Tyson and Grayson Perry. I don't even notice it's on most years. I've seen maybe five or six shows. There was a great Independent (newspaper) editorial years ago about the Turner. It said 'And the winner of The Turner Prize is... The Turner Prize'. Quite.

Apologies re. 'won't last' comment. No intention to be negative. I mean, rather, the same as you say yourself, on the one hand - ie. continued progress and continued effort are needed in order for something to continue artistically; and, on the other, everything does have a natural lifespan, and, really, all that is solid (eventuially) melts into air. Can you think of anything which has not progressed but which has continued? I've seen Discharge series itself mutate, develop, falter, get stronger, go to sleep ... etc. CJ would say the same thing, I think. He, as its practical centre, has interjected with pep talks at times, and Reverse Metal has often functioned like that. In drawing attention to this plain fact, though, I mean to instill not an ounce of fatalism into this place. I am naturally positive, and, as I said, I love Discharge, and am honouredto be part of it historically, and part of it materially when I can find the time to post. I look every day more or less.

The other point you raise ... D4 as gallery exhibit is, I think, fraught with greater difficulties than the mere expense of making cyber corporeal. But is anyone here up for that debate? Do we want that technical, art-thoretical conversation ... around the problems of reification, commodification? Personally, I'd rather put my efforts into other areas.

Bottom line for me is this ... I just don't think truly interesting art is made in and for galleries anymore. I've seen heaps of shows over the last 25-30 years, and I have seen, I think, less than 20 which have really moved me. On the other hand, I was late into this internet thing, only coming on line in 2005, and I've seen 1000s of things art-wise which have knocked my socks off.

My original point was a quip only ... One day someone will crash into the mainstream, be seen as the new thing, with blogs and myspaces etc as his/her material; and we will, old warhorses that we may be then, think 'I was doing that years ago'.

Happy times.

murmurists said...

As Kitchens of Distinction once sang ... 'one of those sometimes in now'.